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How To Know A Divorce Lawyer Is Good: Questions In A High-Stakes Custody Battle

Successful entrepreneur and former client, D’Andrea Robinson talks with Mark about her late husband’s passing and subsequent custody battle for her two children and all while maintaining multiple entrepreneurial ventures. See why her high-stakes family law proceedings led her down a path to find the best attorney possible, ultimately finding herself asking the question, “How do you know a custody/divorce lawyer is good?”.

Mark Scroggins  

Hey folks, Mark Scroggins from Scroggins Law Group back for another edition of the reclamation transformation. And today, I am very pleased to have a former client and someone who has become a friend DeAndre Robinson. Hello, hello. Hey, how are you doing?

DeAndre Robinson  

I’m great. How about yourself?

Mark Scroggins  

I am great. Thank you so much. Thanks for doing this. So I’m super excited about having DeAndre here because, man, when we got together on your matter, you had a shit ton of life happening? Yes. And so not to mention all the different hats you wear, aside from being a normal employee. So despite the number of different businesses you have, and all of that, and all of the life issues that you have overcome. I’ve been blessed enough to be able to sit there and watch some of it happen over the past few years. Right. But it’s crazy to me, you know, because there’s, we had a little discussion beforehand about, you know, God doesn’t give us more than what we can handle. Although sometimes I get to the point where I’m thinking, I’m hitting the breaking point. So I’m not really sure how much more I’ve got or how much you think I’ve got, yeah, but it’s getting tight.

DeAndre Robinson  

Yeah. I Just want to lay down. Take a break.

Mark Scroggins  

Yeah, exactly. So one of the things I wanted to start with is all the different hats that you are wearing, and so that people can get to know you a little bit and the different businesses that you’re involved in and learn a little bit about you. Oh,

DeAndre Robinson  

wow. Okay, so where do I start? Let’s see, I’m a project manager for the health care companies. I have my CSM, which is a certified scrum master. I have my Pio PM, which is a product owner, product manager. I have real estate that I’ve invested in in Georgia, I have a real estate company or realty company have to be very careful about how I phrase it. Right now we’re working on corporate leasing. My hair salon is another one, I stopped for a while, definitely to give my children more time, but then turned back around partnered up with somebody. And so now we’re working on building the brand over off of Preston in the toll road, the George Bush Turnpike. So there’s that. And then of course, a lot of people come to me and ask me for how do I start my business? How do I do this? How do I do that? So I think I think I might add business consultation to that as well. No doubt, and just a lot of opportunities just coming my way right now. And just kind of connecting people so that they can get, you know, get their projects off the ground. And with having that product project management background. Definitely write up a project plan, which turns into a full blown business plan was all said and done. So yeah,

Mark Scroggins  

man, well, if anybody’s gonna have that, you know, good karma out there. Coming back around, it should be you.

DeAndre Robinson  

I pray for it. I fight for it. 

Well, where Iwanted to start was really talking a little bit about our relationship. And so how we met. And so if you don’t mind telling the folks how we met and, and then I’ll just ask you a couple of things. So

let’s see, we obviously met my husband passed away in a car accident randomly. And he had two children. When we first got married, I had my daughter, his two when we got married were one and two. And when he passed away, they happen to be at their aunt’s house that weekend. And she decided to try to hold on to them a little bit longer than what she should have. And she finally brought them home when we had the funeral. She asked to kind of get them away from all that was going on, and she would bring them back home. And then decided not to bring them back home. And that was that was right after we buried him so

Mark Scroggins  

and to be clear, that was not Archie, was your husband

DeAndre Robinson  

Archie was my husband. Correct.

Mark Scroggins  

Not not his sister. But the mother to his children’s aunt. 

DeAndre Robinson  

Correct. And of course, you know, their mother passed away from breast cancer two years prior to him passing away. So it was a big lunch. Yeah, it was a bit much. So yeah, she decided to not bring them back home and to fall for full custody of my babies that have been with me at that time for two years. So that wasn’t going to work. Right. So my immediate response was to find an attorney to file the paperwork. And I got one attorney and then I was like, No, I need the best of the best. These are my children. So I started doing research. I came across your name. I researched you want Google the picture reviews, research, do a super lawyer. Look there, look that LinkedIn look there. And then what’s the Collin County records and pull your information from there as well? And I need to see how many wins You had? And then I called you.

Mark Scroggins  

Well, and how? Let me ask you how things work out? Or you just leave it at that. That was that was a positive laugh, correct? 

DeAndre Robinson  


Mark Scroggins  

So one of the one of the questions I get, because you know, we’re not well, I’ve discussed with you the reason that I created Scroggins Law Group was really to create a concierge practice that right, practicing really high end high conflict, divorce if everybody’s holding hands and singing Kumbaya. Yeah, you don’t need us correct throwing good money after bad to do that, but if you’ve got something that is, you know, bet the business so to speak, or, you know, your kids are, are at stake, which is what the business is to me, right, and a family law proceeding. You know, then you need to hire appropriately. So how do you know, a divorce lawyer is good when you’re making that decision, who to hire.

DeAndre Robinson  

So, um, definitely the reviews on Google. I seen those. I said, okay, then Super Lawyer, you came up, and I seen that I said, Okay, LinkedIn, that’s sort of counting your wins in these cases. And that’s it, okay. And then I have a really good friend who’s also an attorney, and I ran her your name past her. And she was like, phenomenal lawyer. Phenomenal. Okay, that’s why I’m going with, so when she co signed you, it was over after that. And then I walked in your office and seemed like the super lawyer of the year and, you know, all your top lawyers for the year and I was like, I’m in the right place, I’m in the right place. So yeah,

Mark Scroggins  

thank you, I’m, I’m really glad things are well, and but more importantly, the manner in which you have come out of this because, you know, when I told you that I had rebuilt, rebranded our, our podcast here and wanted to, you know, in calling it the reclamation transformation, that’s something that’s really near and dear to my heart, because it’s been, it’s all about a spiritual journey. For me. So, for me, that is in the world of recovery, right. And so it was super important for me to, to find that spiritual connection and be able to maintain it, to keep from just losing my shit, frankly, and and I don’t mean physically, although that would have happened to, but you know, mentally and everything. And so that spiritual connection is so important to me. And I know, you and I know your story. And Good lord, man, you have had a ton of crap heaped upon you, but the way that you have just, it makes me think of the story of the Phoenix, you know, just rising from the ashes and what you have done, So I’d like to, I want to get into that. Yeah. Well, and I mean, it’s, every time we talk, you know, which might go a few months. But it’s, you’ve always got something else that’s going on, and you always have a positive outlook. And so, you know, when we got a chance to talk about, you know, what your spiritual life look like, or religion or whatever you are into, what do you rely on? What has been able to work for you? And has it been, you know, something that has evolved over over time.

DeAndre Robinson  

So when I first started going through everything, I was meditating for, like two or three hours straight. I, for a very long time, I just meditated for two or three hours and then I got a therapist. And she was like, Whoa, that’s way too long. You’re almost sleeping during meditation. So I was like, okay, so then I started writing started working out like crazy. And when I say like crazy, I mean, two days just to get the energy off. Boxing was another thing. I was beating the hell out of a boxing bag. Like almost demolishing it, right. But now it’s more or less. I’m up at like four o’clock in the morning. I literally lay there and meditate for 30 minutes. I write to myself first thing in the morning, I work out, and then I immediately get online. Right now I’m studying e commerce so I can show my girls how to do e commerce at their age. Right, right. And that’s what I do right now. I work I go straight into working, but I also make time for them. I get up I get them ready. I make ginger shots for them in the morning. I keep I keep our bodies, right? Because the stuff that’s floating around is no good, right? Yeah. And so I’m just eating right and staying focused, definitely researching on how to make sure I stay out of a depression because that can happen easily. There were days where I just didn’t want to go to bed. It was just like, right. I don’t want to do this anymore. But that, literally, it’s been meditating, making sure I make time for myself working out eating right. I’m not a big pill fan, yes, I work for the health care companies, but I’m not a pill fan, I get it. So I have to eat right, I have to work out. So I bring my dopamine up naturally, right? And then just definitely spend the time with my girls, you know, I get a kick out of telling the truth about everything. And then what? Oh, my God, so I definitely feed off of them and feed into them, you know, but I had to find solace in what mattered.

Mark Scroggins  

I wanted so one of the things that’s very interesting to me when you talk about, you know, meditation and writing to yourself. So the one thing one thing I’ve always struggled with is, is being able to maintain a spiritual connection. So I run into problems when I have a tendency to start intellectualizing God. You know, and I’m smart enough to know the number of translations that have happened to get to, let’s say, just one version, the St. James Bible or the NIV Bible, in English, okay, it wasn’t written in English, with, you know, so all the different transformation, so I can start to intellectualize everything, and when left to my own devices, where my mind goes is, this is bullshit. Now, what finally worked for me, was a process called two way prayer. And so anybody who’s interested out there two way prayer.org,

DeAndre Robinson  

two way prayer.org. Okay,

Mark Scroggins  

so there were at the turn of the century, there were what were known as the Oxford groups, okay. And the person who created the Oxford groups, it basically stemmed out of organized religion, but it was attempts for people to get sober. Okay. And so one of the things that began to be utilized was an was what was called two way prayer. And in that process, it’s, it’s, it’s a writing exercise, okay, so you get. So I have a problem with meditation, because I have squirrel moment after moment after squirrel moment. I’m not good at being still or quiet. And so this has, has a tendency to quiet me. And so you start out by reading something spiritual that gets you in the right state of mind being in a special place, you do this in the same place every day, unless, of course, you’re on vacation, or whatever. And you’re writing asking God for direction on something. So it might be something about if I’ve got an issue with a parent, or if I’ve got an issue in work with an employee, or how do I do this for a client or something like that, where there is a challenge to me, and it is weighing on me. And it’s writing this down, and then getting quiet and waiting for the inspiration to start writing again, and then I just write until whatever I am hearing. And it’s okay. Okay. And so I learned about this through a through seminar that was that was put on about six years ago, that I went to, and it’s led by a guy who’s an Episcopalian priest, who, who’s been sober for 40 years. And he got into it because it 20 years of sobriety, he was like, I’m about to start drinking again. Because I cannot maintain a spiritual connection, even being a priest. Right? And so, this was shared with me, I went to the seminar, and since then my spiritual life has been different. 

DeAndre Robinson  


Mark Scroggins  

But that was a way for me to pray and meditate at the same time without having squirrel moments. As much, okay, I’m not gonna say, completely disappeared, because that might ask be asking a bit much, right. But it has, it has made it a whole lot better. And it’s allowed me to maintain that connection. So even though it felt incredibly weird, stupid, like total bullshit when I began it, so when he was doing, he was doing this seminar, and he’s like, you just write down whatever comes to your mind, no matter how ridiculous so we get done at the end. And he’s like, so what came to you and I, of course, raise my hand. First thing is, what comes to my mind is This is bullshit. And he said, That’s good. That’s good, because you know, the ego is loud and powerful when it is dying. And so it’s that struggle, so and Wait, any time I hear somebody talking about that they meditate for any period of time, right? It’s not doing anything beyond just being able to meditate and they can do that. I am amazed. Because I am a novice, I cannot seem to be able to you know

DeAndre Robinson  

what, I had so much going on inside of me that was just trying to determine what emotion I was feeling. So to just lay there and go, What am I feeling? And that’s that was literally what was going through my mind for those hours. What am I feeling? What am I feeling? What am I feeling? Do I feel mad? No, I’m not mad, am I happy? Am I, I was literally going through emotions. In those hours, I would meditate like that, right? And I was numb for years. So two, three hours is a long time to meditate, tend to fall asleep, sometimes you can look comfortable on a hardwood floor.

Mark Scroggins  


DeAndre Robinson  

So you know, now, if you ask me to meditate that long, I can’t do it, right, which sounds really crazy. Because I’m like, Oh, I gotta go do this, I have to do this, I gotta do this, I start doing this checklist in my head. And I have to literally bring myself back present, and just focusing on my breathing again.

Mark Scroggins  

So I’m glad you mentioned being present. Because I think that is something that you know what, I’m not gonna speak about anybody else. For me, that is very difficult. So, you know, it’s like you can you can start tripping about things that have happened in the past, and you start having that conversation, oh, God, and he or she said this, and then I should have said, but I actually said, and so I’m thinking about all this bullshit in the past, or then I’m thinking about something else that’s going to, you know, that might happen in the future. Yeah. You don’t know what the hell is gonna happen in the future, you know, and the only time the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to me has only happened between my ears never actually happened.

DeAndre Robinson  

I go through that. I think that happens, though, when you do have a lifestyle where you’re doing so much, you’re trying to predict the next move and the outcome of that move to make sure it’s the right thing. And so I do do that, right. And I have to remind myself to just remove all expectations. And that’s the one thing that I have literally worked diligently on, this has been my thing for the past six months, just remove expectations from people’s from outcome. Just remove it. If the goal is to make a million dollars, that’s the only I’m going to make a million dollars. That’s the only thing I know. I don’t know how I’m gonna get there, right. But I’m gonna make that million dollars. Right, right. So I just removed all expectations now. And I stay present and what it is that I’m working on at that moment. It’s hard, though. Very hard.

Mark Scroggins  

I’m glad you said that. Because for me, it can get challenging. Interesting thing, though, for me is the amount of relief that it brings when you can really be present in the moment and just enjoy what’s going on. Right then. So like, I’m enjoying being able to talk to my friend in this scenario, too. Yeah. I’m not thinking about Holy shit, I gotta be in court tomorrow and do that. And I gotta do the other. Right, you know, because then I’m starting to freak out and future trip about something that hasn’t transpired. We’ll all be fine. Do what you know to do, right here and right now and enjoy that moment.

DeAndre Robinson  

Absolutely. I think I’m probably most present. This is gonna sound crazy. I love going down to Miami. And I get on the yacht. And I literally just lay there and sit on the water. That’s it. I was going for hours to sell on the water and just lay there.

Mark Scroggins  

So I understand that because I’ve been I’ve been scuba diving since I was 17. So let’s just say that’s been a little bit yeah. And so it’s the that is the the time that I am at the most peace is when I am underwater, and you’ve got you know, rhythmic breathing. Yeah, sounds a little bit like Darth Vader. Yeah. They’re breathing. But you know, enjoying the beauty that’s underwater that so few have really got to experience and absolutely, you know, so that’s when I am totally at peace. So I understand.

DeAndre Robinson  

I love the water, like love the water. That is it for me. Yeah. So like when I’m here in the hustle and bustle. Yeah. Oh, I have to fight for that. Which is why I get up so early in the morning. It is dead quiet. dead quiet. I hear birds, you know, birds starting to chirp. It’s still dark outside. It’s just peaceful. Right and my children aren’t up yet. They’re not knocking at the door yet. So that is the best time to do it is yeah,

Mark Scroggins  

Absolutely. So I’m gonna go back around to talking a little bit about a spiritual connection because, you know, we were having this conversation be before and I heard you make the gut that comment that you know, God takes care of the widows. Yes. So I’m gonna gather that this spiritual connection is not Not just secular in nature, but it also is very spiritual or religious depending on what you know how people view it.

DeAndre Robinson  

Right. So I am spiritual. I am not religious. I am not the person who gets up every morning. I’m not going to Bible thump you either. I’m not gonna do any of that. But I do have morals. I do have integrity. And I do have a belief in a spiritual alignment. Like I see you have with Tiger’s eye on your wrist. I do. I have a ton of bracelets at home Tiger’s eye amethyst. Oh, that’s what I say. It’s a spiritual connection. For that reason. I’ve done my research behind every last one of those stones. I I have to believe in something. Yes. I have to believe in something. Right? And if you don’t believe in anything else for me, I can believe in God. Yes. And and my dad’s a pastor, right? That’s the funny person. My dad’s a pastor. And he’s like, You need to go to church on Sundays. Right from my bed. It’s on it’s online. And so, you know, he’s like, no need to get up and go. Yeah, no, I don’t. I don’t, I don’t like people. I like God. I’m like, people. So I get it. I do that. But I found so much solace in that. Especially after Archie dying. Yeah. He’s telling me all the time, babe, just show love. Just show love God, when God will take care of you. God will take care of you. And so that’s what I’ve done. Yeah, I do read my Bible. I can refer back to it. But it’s also like, okay, great. Now, how does this translate to my life now? Right? How do I apply this now? So yeah, I believe that God does take care of the widows, you can’t wrong people and think is not going to come back. So whether you call it God is gonna get you karma, whatever your spiritual belief is, it’s going to happen. So I do have a spiritual connection, I definitely make it a point to spin that time. And biblically, it states that God is in each and every one of us. So who better to spend time with thing yourself?

Mark Scroggins  

Well, and I yeah, I completely agree. It’s, you know, one of the things that always impressed me about my ex wife was she always had this childlike belief in God, it was something that she never had to question. It was just always there, it was stable. And I was amazed, because that was not. That was not my story, you know. And so today, you know, my understanding of God is different. It’s really a God of my understanding of what works for me, the difference is that I don’t have any desire to try to shove my understanding or my belief system down your throat, nor do I, you know, for others who want to try to do that, that are like, Okay, well, my religion says that, if you don’t believe this, then it’s like, okay, well, if that works for you, that’s great. That’s different than my belief set. But you know, I don’t really care.

DeAndre Robinson  

I take a little bit from each religion, right? Because the principles are all the same, right? Treat people the way you want to be treated, do unto others as you want done unto you. So I feel like if you just follow those things, you should do pretty well in life. You know what I mean? And, and definitely, if you’re pointing the finger at somebody, you might need to look at yourself, right? Take the time to self reflect, please do. Yeah, please. So that’s kind of where I’m at in life. I don’t I have a spiritual connection. But I don’t claim one religion over the other. My dad would probably lose his head if he heard me say that. But you know, I just don’t, I just don’t I know that. For me, God is real. And that’s just what it is.

Mark Scroggins  

Right? I get it. You know, that’s, it’s, it’s interesting. My dad passed away the day after Christmas in 2000. But there’s still things that I that I remember. So he was a, he was a CPA, and had been a chief financial officer for a lot. Companies. And so I was first in the family that was going to be a lawyer, of course, he thought was absolutely the most horrific thing ever really well, because his experience was with corporate lawyers, and corporate lawyers, he’s like, you know, they want to screw up a perfectly good idea with, you know, but fours in there that, you know, all this kind of stuff, which I understand. So, but I remember when I was in college, and I would come back, and so I would be going to church with the family. It was always, you know, collection plate plates going around. And my dad would always, you know, don’t forget to buy buy got a beer. I’m pulling out what was $3 at that time, you know, which vastly different now going out somewhere. But he was another one that had, you know, was steeped in the tradition of the Episcopalian Church and, you know, almost became a priest and so, very interesting to you know, that is a place that the Apple didn’t even and fall in the same state as a tree. But it’s interesting how things come full circle, right? So I am much more connected now spiritually than I ever was previously growing up, you know, and I’ve got tons of friends who are in church every Sunday and I think that’s great if that’s what works for you. It just doesn’t

DeAndre Robinson  

I’m not built like that. I’m definitely not built like that. I I believe that you do have to have something fed into you, right? That has to be the right message fit into you have to connect with that message. Right. So I might go on YouTube and look for a sermon from a different church or different pastor or something of the store. Sometimes it can be a completely different religion, just because just because I feel like you can learn something from each religion. Right, right. Like, for me, personally, yeah, I understand the whole concept of Christianity. But I love again, that foundation of Do unto others as you want them to you, but I love the discipline of the Muslims, they are at bat I have never seen a discipline. So so to get out in the middle of the street during prayer hour and put your carpet down and pray exactly where you’re at. That’s a level of discipline that I think we all can use at times, to make sure that we get to where we need to get to, right you know, just and then other religions where they don’t eat any meat, they their bodies, holy the temple. That’s something else that you can take from so I am definitely a spiritual person. Please don’t talk to me about religion and don’t browbeat me with your religion either. Because you’re gonna be sadly disappointed when I tell you if you don’t get on my face. You’re gonna see this whole, a whole other religion come about here. So..

Mark Scroggins  

I totally get it. So what is next for you on the horizon?

DeAndre Robinson  

So I’m apparently I’m going to Austin this weekend for South by Southwest. I got roped into something there. I’m helping my cousin with her gym. I got her a grant writer were supposed to meet next week to help her get that up and going the doors open by the beginning of the year. For myself, I don’t know I want to buy more property. I’ve been looking at multi units. So I definitely want to buy more property. Yeah. My dad is out in Arizona. He’s very, very adamant about wanting to open up something out there. He was talking about like a little lounge area in the Coolidge Arizona area. The law firm that he works for the lady that has all the liquor licensing. And he’s talking to me about NASA, you and a restaurant. And he was just like no allowed our restaurant is what do that minimum 100,000. He’s like, Well, we can you went to a restaurant. I don’t know about a restaurant, I don’t know about that. That’s that’s a little risky. So just definitely more property though. I set up my trust. So we closed on our house this week. And every and everything after that just acquiring a bunch of assets so that my children don’t start where I started teaching them ecommerce, they know the difference between an asset and a liability. Now they can tell you what that is. They all know what they want to sell from an E commerce perspective. So I couldn’t pay your own way through college, and it’s gonna be fun. So that’s where I’m at now just educating them and passing down that information to them at this point, so that I can retire at 45. I have about I have less than 10 years, so I can retire at 45 and just be very comfortable in my assets work for me and spend more time on the water.

Mark Scroggins  

You know, I love that. Yeah, cuz we were talking about that what is retiring? You know, look like and I have a hard time seeing myself ever completely walk away. I don’t know that it would work for me.

I don’t think you will ever just walk away. I think you’ll always want to have that pen and pad somewhere to care about that last case that went on in the courtroom. For me, he’s well, I don’t know if I’ll ever just be able to sit around and not do anything at all, of course. But to have the luxury to move about the way that I want to and not be like ball and chained to a desk or a computer or my phone. Like, yeah, I want that. It’s coming.

I know if anybody deserves it, you know, you do. 

DeAndre Robinson  

I appreciate that. 

Mark Scroggins  

I remember where you were just a few years back on some real estate and to see what’s going on with you today. Damn you know! 

DeAndre Robinson  

yeah, I’m excited! 

Mark Scroggins  

Yeah, you should be so im excited about you going to South by Southwest I can’t believe with, you know, as much time as I spent in Austin. And That was one thing I have not done.

DeAndre Robinson  

That was such a random phone call I got two nights ago was like, Hey, we’re coming there. We’re going to South by Southwest. And can you connect with somebody in Dallas? And I was like, Yeah, I’ll connect you with somebody in Dallas. So I do that right. And I’m just like, he’s I said, I’m gonna connect you guys and then you guys can talk and I don’t need to be involved. He’s like, like, hell, you right? In the middle of this shit, let’s go. You’re gonna stop by Southwest. Why are you paying? You’re driving to okay so lets go!

Mark Scroggins  

Maybe Karma will be there too. But I mean, that’s just kind of the thing that I’m talking about, you know, you put out good energy. You get things that are back, down out, you allow yourself to be selfless at time and the payback is phenomenal.

DeAndre Robinson  

It is it is. It’s been a blessing. You know, God has been a blessing. I, there were so many times when I was like, Oh, my God, I can’t do this. I’m just I just want to pull the covers over my head and just lay in bed for six days. And my little people were like, Yeah, Mommy, we’re hungry. Right. Tell you. All right. Let me try again later when you’re not here. But I’m glad I kept going. Yeah, yeah, you know, just keep going and keep pushing. And you stay focused. You need an alignment, like where else you need like the little folder on either the blinders like the horses had, I didn’t just just stay focused.

Mark Scroggins  

That’s why there are so many other lawyers and paralegals and staff around here today, because it’s it’s like herding cats keeping me going in the right direction.

DeAndre Robinson  

Yeah. Me horse blinders. Just keep you going. But I’m guilty of it, too. So I get it. Yeah, I get it. I did. Well, thank

Mark Scroggins  

you for joining me. Appreciate it. And thank you all for joining us for another episode of the reclamation transformation with my good friend DeAndre Robinson so remember, that change begins with you so remember to leave your mark.

How To Know A Divorce Lawyer Is Good: Questions In A High-Stakes Custody Battle

Listen to Reclamation Transformation with Dallas Family Law Attorney Mark Scroggins for inspirational and candid discussions on topics relating to family law from the perspective of real people. And without any overwhelming lawyer-speak so you can remember that change starts with you and remember to make your mark.



Hey everybody, Mark Scroggins back for another edition of the Reclamation Transformation and today I’ve got a special guest; Courtney Hemsley has joined me. How are you today?


I am fantastic.


I am really excited about this. We had a really nice discussion prior to and the similarities are frankly a little scary.



To me it sounds like we are kind of cut from the same cloth on a lot of stuff but I wanted to introduce you and let everybody get to know you a little bit.


Can you just talk about what you do professionally and then we’ll get to talk about some of the good stuff as well?


Yeah, exactly.


Professionally, Empire Development Solutions were the one-stop solution for any of your construction project needs.


Everything starts with the land acquisitions, what looks right for land,


What can be built there, single family, multi-family, commercial retail, then I go from there, my company does infrastructure and development. Therefore we are doing on your streets, curbs, gutters and roads for sites to be ready to go vertical. So if anyone knows that word on all of the stuff before vertical coming in, you are building up. In addition to that, I have the lending aspect of it which has been a big part of my business providing construction loans. Land acquisition,



What’s the best way to do it?


Construction loans. Construction loans which are really, really hard for a lot of these developers to get into place.


And from there also being an investor resource.


It sounds like a lot of crazy things going on but all lines up. You have to start with the land, you have to have infrastructure and development done, you, a lot of people have to have that financing in place for construction and then on the investor side, at the end of the day find ways to put your money to work.


I can walk into a room and talk to investors and go, hey, have you ever invested in a business?



I have to be in real estate, let me show you creative ways to invest in real estate.


Nothing is guaranteed.


Of course.


But put your money to work and just get awareness about what is going on in that space.


The only way to get aware or to be aware is to being in those rooms and being around those resources.


So are you doing stuff both with, you mentioned a developer.



But let’s say if I wanted to build a house and so I’m trying to figure out, hey, Courtney, I want to build this real modern house.


There’s an area generally that I want to build in.


Is that something that I would get?


I don’t do anything owner occupied.


So it wouldn’t be like a primary residence.


Anything I’m going to do or going to lend on or be a part of is going to be anything what they would consider in the commercial space.



Even though it may have a residential component, but it wouldn’t be anything owner occupied that would be your typical mortgages like Fannie or Freddie.


Mine’s going to be more of we’re building a single family development or, you know, I’m an investor.



I have some land.


I want to buy this land.


I want to build two townhomes on it.


I’ll connect them with the builder.



If they don’t know how to build and they bring in the money, if they need lending, I’ll bring in the lending.


So just kind of connecting all those pieces together, building multifamily units.


Right now I have three of those going on, doing the financing for that.

And then again, there’s again, investors.


Like here’s opportunities to invest in multifamily.


That’s probably your long play on money.



So like if I wanted to do something like with one of the things that I’m intrigued by right now is the whole inland port.


Things so like, you know, going down 45 where we’ve got the, the inland port right there and let’s say that I wanted to put together some – build some multifamily down there. And to service the people that are actually going to be working at the inland port.


That’s something that’s right up my alley.




All right.


You come up with the idea.



I can do anything to help partner it, you know, find the land to get that entitled for that specific use.


Obviously, if you’re not about going out and swinging a hammer, there are plenty of resources that build single-family townhome, multifamily.


That’s their space.


Having the construction background, which kind of still leads me down this niche.


My career started in construction, like on a job site all day, every day, and develop with multifamily.


I think I went home crying every single day.



I didn’t understand it.


There was no HR.




No, I was like, Oh, my God, what did I get myself into?


But it gave me just tough skin and, you know, that’s so unique to have, you know, frankly, to have a female that is involved in that space on the ground floor.





You’re talking about being on a job site because I remember working some construction summers when I was in high school and it was not a, it was not a PC environment.


Definitely not.


But I will say, you know, it’s interesting because being the different person has made the difference in my career.


There’s not a room that I walk in.


I actually want to walk in a room and be the oddball out.





Because your first thing is not about attention as I’m like, Oh, look at me, but intention.




What is she doing here?


First off, it’s like that.


What is she doing here?


Or secondly, you know, if you’re opposite in a room that you’re in, you get that attention.



Then you, what you’re talking about makes sense.




You just, they’re not going to forget you.


No, that’s exactly right.


So that’s my biggest thing.


I encourage everyone, you know, like, man, walk in those rooms, especially.



Well, you’re the oddball out of the different one, but just make sure you know what you’re talking about.


And, you know, people won’t forget you.


You’ll make those connections.


You’ll have the resources and you’ll make a big difference.


That’s truly been being different has made the difference 100% in my career as a woman in construction.


I can, I can absolutely understand that.



And it sounds like one of the things that you also just mentioned is something that I mentioned to people all the time that knowledge is power.


Oh, you know, so like when I have somebody asking me, you know, what should I be looking for in a family law attorney?


It’s like, well, you know, start with looking for someone who’s board certified because it’s a higher level of understanding.


It’s, you know, and you have to meet all these criteria.




But it’s about knowledge.



You know, if you’re kind of a jack of all trades in the.


You do family law.


You do personal injury.


You do criminal and all this shit.


You know, it’s like you’re, you’re a jack of all trades, but master of none.


So you don’t know what you don’t know.





So you better make sure you get someone who knows what they know, which I can’t imagine.


You know, you hear all the terrible stories about, you know, contractors that have taken deposits and they run or they do an absolute shotty job.


And then you find out, oh, well, they’re not numbers of their business.


You know, all these different complaints and stuff like that.


So, yeah, it’s important to.



And a key to that is I think I don’t market anything about myself.


Everything comes from referrals or resources that I’ve worked with before.



Just like you.


I think that I think people look over that sometimes people want to look on Google or look on however you find people these days social media.


And I just want to see what somebody’s talking about in the moment.





I think the real way that you get people that are legit and their business and then we’ll do their best for you is to check the resources or apps.


Somebody, who did you use them?


I mean, if you problem is, most of us don’t want to ask because we’re too embarrassed to say what we don’t know.




But if you would me, I’m going to ask everybody.





This is what I mean.


I don’t know crap about it.


But who has not who’s dealt with the best person in this?


Who’s dealt with it?


And how did they treat you?



How did it turn out?


I think that’s what we tend to overlook is to instead of not asking or being embarrassed that we don’t think we don’t know is to really just ask people.


Who did you use for who was your best law attorney?


Who was I think that’s probably the key?


Well, and I think most of those for sure.


I completely agree with you.



I think that is you know, it’s amazing though.


You also hit on something that I think is really important that you mentioned that sometimes we’re too embarrassed to ask, which I think is we get in our own ways.


And I shouldn’t I shouldn’t say that like we like third person.


I get in my own way.


All right.

Because it is difficult.



I think one of the hardest things at the end of the day is just being an authentic human being all the time.




Because I think most people it’s easy for me to get caught up in what the idea of a certain role is.




So I have people thinking, you know, that, wow, I should be dressed in a suit all the time.


And you know, this stuff sure kind of kind of deal and it’s like, man, that ain’t me.





You know, so and they, you know, hear me drop some interesting terminology on things.


And, you know, I cuss like a sailor.




You know, but that’s just me.


And it’s more of an authentic thing.



So understanding, getting to that point of, you know, I don’t give a shit.


What people think to a certain degree.



I mean, you’ve got, you know, a healthy amount.


You have to have a healthy amount of you to be able to survive.


But to keep that from turning into an unhealthy narcissist and being a people pleaser or being being concerned about, you know, God forbid you get codependent on stuff.


And I’m so worried about what everybody else thinks that I can’t, you know, do my freaking job.



And that’s not what it’s about.




And when I say do my job, I’m not just talking about being a divorce lawyer.

I’m talking about being a friend, being a husband, being a father, you know, being a son.


All of these different things are different roles where they’re all I look at it like I want to be there to support or to help. 100%.



But if I’m worried about what everybody thinks, I also can’t protect myself by setting proper boundaries.





You’re right.


I think you touched face on something really important there.


Roles can be deceiving.






And they can cause, they can cause a lot of pain whenever or heartache or disappointment.


I’ve experienced myself.


We all get these roles and titles.


Mother, father, husband, boyfriend, daughter.




And somewhere along the way, we’re taught that this role means we have to be this way.





And that’s it.


And when we set ourselves up to go along these roles that everyone else is trying to make us be or that we see or that we think or that we read.


And then that doesn’t happen.


That’s where that disappointment comes in or that for others and even for yourself.


I think that’s when you touch on that and that really, really, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked back in life, not today, but back in life and then been disappointed by myself thinking I wasn’t doing the role right, a role.



Disappointed in others when really now what I’ve learned is you just have to, we spoke on this earlier before, you just have to be here now and you have to love people for who they are and what they are in your life now.


Love yourself for who you are and what you are in your life right now.


And just be here in that moment.


There’s no past.


There’s no future.


But those roles, man, they can you really, you know, had a good one with that one because they can really, really cause us to go all different directions emotionally and mentally.



You know, and the interesting thing to me is that when we talk about, you know, those roles, so the definition of those roles, well, who created the definition?




It is the generation previous.




The generation prior.


So like, I’m generation X. Yeah.



You know, and so you had the baby boomers for us that were defining certain roles.


And so, you know, I look at the way my dad was, the way my mom is, you know, different things of what their expectations are of those roles.


So at that time, it was very gender specific, right?


You know, dad’s going to be the big earner and mom’s going to be home with the kids and, and all of these things.


And, you know, for generation X, that was those definitions are still in play to a certain degree, but less so, you know, so understanding how certain things work and you can be your own individual, I think is difficult a lot of the time for the baby boomers to really understand.


And yet, you know, my daughter, who is now 25, you know, looks at me with some of my thoughts and what makes sense for me and thinks you are out of your damn mind.



Live life a little, honey.




That’s right.


You know, so, but I don’t, I don’t, I can only see it in my perspective.


I can be very open to listening to what she says and what the way they think and think, you know, one of my dad saying said I love and now I understand it was, you know, you’re entitled to your own opinion, no matter how screwed up it is.





You know, so, so I think about that now.


And so, but it’s funny based on what the perspective is.


And so getting comfortable enough in your own skin to be able to say, well, that’s fine.


You can think I’m absolutely out of my mind.




And that, you know, you’re entitled to that opinion.



But I don’t have to live my life.




Based on what you or society in general, you’re right.




I’ve got to figure out what absolutely works for me.









So it’s like one of the things we were talking about before we began the podcast is you’ve really seen an acceleration in your business just going to new fights.


Based on exactly what we’re talking about, being the authentic you and being able to be present right here right now.




So 100%.



So how did you, you know, we all have our own, our own journeys for sure that we have to go down.


You know, mine is kind of mine is steeped in recovery.




And that has allowed me to obtain a certain level of spirituality and some people, you know, that don’t know me well would probably hear that and go, you’re full of shit. Because I’ve seen you in the courtroom and you do not appear to be the most spiritual person in that particular moment.


And that might be true at that moment.



But it’s like, you know, if we’re going to have a street fight, you know, I’m not going into it without.






So, but how did you, what got you to the point, what has worked for you to be able to really be the, the authentic Courtney and be true to who you are and live life the way it makes sense for you instead of worrying about whatever other people see.


And that’s a good question.


I would say that my entire life I’ve been in survival mode from childhood to adulthood as a wife when I was a wife as a parent.



I’ve been in that survival mode and being in that survival mode, you know, we all talk about, yo, I’ve got to be strong up, got to be tough.


But in those modes, I mean, I lost myself 100%.


I was so focused on how to career a great beautiful daughter.


She’s wonderful.


But who was I?


What was I doing?



And I was just what I learned was we, we often, we don’t do it on purpose.


We get stuck in these modes of survival.


And when you’re trying to survive, you’re really not living.


And that’s where there was four years ago, I went through always, like I said, struggled, you know, and just been in that fight, fight mode, not where I’m fighting everything, but just like, man, you just got to make things happen.


You know, I can’t fail.


I can’t do this.



Four years ago, I went through a divorce, really, really bad divorce.


And I was 30, me and my daughter kicked out of our home right at the beginning of COVID.


All of my business was shut down, you know, construction.


There was nothing going on kicked out of our home.


And in that moment, everything that I knew was gone.


And from my home to being a wife, my daughter, we lived in a hotel for several months.



She went to college.


I mean, even my dog died for 15 years.


So a girl was like stripped down to nothing.


I had nowhere else to go.


And I really, and in that time, you know, we can’t get away from ourselves.


A lot of times we do things to distract ourselves.



We do things, you know, as a husband, a wife, as a mother, because we don’t want to stop and work on ourselves.


We don’t want to stop and look what’s really going on inside of us.


But when God puts you through these things so you can get to your purpose, you have to allow that stripping of everything down.


I mean, you don’t want to build back up with the same shit on the bottom.


I mean, eventually, eventually resurfaces.


So I took that time, that time of, instead of feeling sorry for myself, instead of going back in that fight mode and survival mode.



I had to, who is Courtney?


What is she about?


What excites her?


What motivates her?


What keeps her going when all of these things that I’ve lived for when they’re gone?


Because they were gone.





So trying the typical, what everybody does, okay, I’m God, love God, believe in God 100%, but not everything looks the same as what everything looks.


You know, I’m going to go to the church.


I’m going to go to counseling.


I went through all these steps to become my best me because I knew that’s what I needed.


And it wasn’t until I went on this journey, an awakening journey, I call it awakening of the soul, practicing Ayahuasca, that it really allowed me to go deep and address what had me in that survival mode for my entire life.



And not until I was able to address that and really see it and understand that the past is dark, it’s deep.


I don’t necessarily have to keep reliving that or reminding myself of that to be who I am today.




And not allowing what’s going to happen tomorrow or what am I going to do tomorrow?


What’s going on?


Not allowing that.



I’m really focused on, you’ll hear me all the time now.


When moments come up, be here now, be here now, be here now, because that’s all I can do is control what’s going on now.




So I think my biggest turning point was quieting all the noise outside of me.


What people think, what people say, you know, you’re divorced or you have nothing, you’re starting over and everybody wants to.


And really just digging into myself, my faith and God and what worked for me, not being worried about what worked for other people was my big turning point for me to be the best and to be where I am today and to learn and know my purpose.



And in that, it has allowed my business to grow tremendously.


It’s allowed me.


At this age, this point in my life, I feel the freest, most fulfilled that I’ve ever felt in my life.


And it’s all just because I stripped it all down, allowed it to be stripped down.


And I took that time, really took that time to build myself back up.


You know, that is, I think that is something, I will just talk about me again.



But that is something that I struggle with is, nobody enjoys the pruning.






I mean, that’s when you really get your ass kicked.


For sure.


You know, there’s a, there’s a prayer called the Prayer of J. Bess.



And so back in the day, when I actually went to church, instead of just relied more on spirituality, I remember we had a, had a book study about this book.


Called the Prayer of J. Bess.


And it talked about the necessity for the pruning so that the future blooms could be better than they’ve ever had.


But nobody wants to go through that process or understanding that that is just part of the process.




You know, that there are times when I’ve got to learn certain lessons.



So I made big believer in karma and, you know, so what you put out there, you’re going to get that.


And, and so part of that is like doing things.


Charitably, whether it is time or money or whatever where, you know, nobody else knows about that.




And it’s nobody else’s business.





And if I turn it around and make it a look-at-me kind of thing, well, that does – does away with, you know, what it’s about.


That’s exactly right.


But it’s the same thing with other things, you know, I think it’s, it’s very easy to get caught up in those roles or get caught up in certain trappings, you know, whether it’s, you know, people get derailed by different things, whether it’s, you know, booze or money or sex or whatever shining


glibly, you know, and exactly.


And I like sparkly.





You know, so I like it.


But it can’t be what I am all about because if it does, then it’s hollow.


There’s nothing for sure.


There is nothing left inside.


If that is what it is truly about.





And so it’s super easy to get caught up in that instead of focusing, you know, how can I truly serve my fellow man, but within the parameters of healthy bound.




That’s exactly.




That’s 100%.





So there’s, there is a, you know, there’s a saying in the recovery community.


You know, we carry the message.


We don’t carry the alcoholic.






You know, so you can’t do it for someone.



And it’s the same thing.


And I mean, that’s just an extreme example that applies to me.


But that is an example, I think that carries over into every aspect of life.


You know, you can see somebody struggling like hell, you know, and really suffering.


But you can’t make them take the steps that you believe they need to take.


You know, you’re right.



And I think you, you, you really setting those boundaries.




That’s a hard thing.


I mean, I’ve dealt with that in the past setting those boundaries where.


And those come from where you learn how to, for me, they came from learning how to, like I said, going back.


They were somewhere along the way where I saw myself as less than.





We all do it.


At some point.


We feel like we don’t fit in where they were not qualified or not.


And somewhere along that way, when I found myself as less than that’s when I allowed boundaries to be broken in those things.


I think when we’re going through these things as they always come up, someone’s always going to try to, you know, go past the boundary or you allow it.



Not really people sometimes, such as who they are and what they are.


You know, they said they don’t know any better, but maybe they don’t.


But it’s also up to us.


But, you know, we can’t, we can’t play victim to people that have crossed our boundaries.


We have to be responsible for those boundaries and the way, a way to get those is to, it comes with confidence, self love, awareness, awakening to be able to protect that and not in a bitter or have a wall up or, you know, no emotion type of way.


But just what’s wrong with selling someone, my biggest thing.



Now I’ll tell anyone business personally.


Hey, I just don’t think we’re aligned.


Those are probably thinking, what is she talking about?


It’s my easiest way to say is like, “You’re not for me and I’m not for you.”


And that’s cool.


I respect you in your space.



But I’m going to respect myself as well.


But it didn’t come until I was able to break myself down and realize what was allowing me to allow those boundaries to be crossed.


And now to set them and stand by them.


And like I said, love myself and be aware of what works for me.


That may not work for other people.


You know, and that’s, that’s, I think that is so important and difficult because I can be lonely.





And well, and as I sit here though, when I look at, when I’ve allowed my boundaries to be violated.



One, I’ve allowed it to happen.




But the whole reason that I am allowing it to happen is because I want someone to think better of me.




If I do this, which goes against my core values.




And it might be helping this person who says that they need help or doing whatever that is for the benefit of someone else.


But I’m like, this isn’t right.




I should not be doing this for them.



This is stressing me out.


It’s not even my deal.





You know, a perfect, perfect example is, you know, loaning money to those that are closest to you.





You know, don’t do it unless you can view it as a gift.


And you don’t.




And you’re not going to see it as a result.




For sure.



Because then all you’re doing is you’re harming the relationship.




And someone might be pissed at you in the process of you saying no.




But actually what you’re doing is you’re, you know, you’re harming the relationship by saying yes. 100%. For sure.





Because you’re resentful.













It’s just amazing to me how those kind of lessons continue to pop up until I have learned the lesson of don’t do that.




It’s like, you know, I have what I, what I refer to as white knight syndrome.




You know, I want to ride in on my white horse and save the day.





You know, and, and most of the time, that is not my job.


And most of the time, the people that you do that for have absolutely no appreciation for it.


I am 100% convinced.


And then you’re like, what?


I did all that.


I did this.



That’s right.




I am convinced that is where the saying of no good deed goes unfinished.


For sure.


Originates from.





You know, because I’ll see that.


And I will, I will do that.


I’ll do, for example, I’ll do that on a pro bono situation where I’m going to go in and oh, I know I shouldn’t do this.


But I’m going to help this person.


And they are the most ungrateful individuals.


Think that the world owes them everything and has absolutely no self awareness about.



You’re not a victim in everything that happens.


Or if you really think that you are, then what’s the common denominator?


It’s you.


The Bob brings the whole yes.


You know, I mean, it’s amazing.





You know, I will have people that walk in and will do that.


And, and it’s like, yeah, do you take responsibility for anything?


Right. 100%.


But that’s what I meant when I said setting these boundaries off.


I’ve felt it’s been lonely in a good way.





Because it really, when you.


Like, I don’t mind saying no now.




So, I mean, that means that they’re probably going to be pissed that I said no, but okay, well, they’re probably not going to call.


They’re probably.


But that’s what I mean by you have to be comfortable, which I think we both kind of.



Learned how to set those parameters because it can be very lonely, feebling.




Because a lot of times these boundaries, we let them down because we want to be accepted or because we want to save the day or we want to be loved or there’s something missing.


So when you set up these boundaries until someone knows and then they don’t ring your phone again.


Well, first off, that tells you their motives were off.





And, but it feels lonely in the beginning.




When you start setting these boundaries in your eye, how all these things we do to improve ourself feel horrible.






Well, and you get for, I get a warning about it.





Because I am a big believer in what my get.


Oh, yes.




And that’s the way I am a big believer that God talks to me in that way.


And every time I go against what my God is telling me, it’s a shit show.



Why didn’t I?




And it’s like, I knew.


I knew.


You had a ton of warning there.





You know, I was sitting there telling you don’t do it.


Don’t do it.


No, no, no.


I can make it work.


I can do it.


I can fit.



That’s ego.


We are ego.


Man, it can get the best of us.


Well, you know, I think anybody who thought God didn’t have a sense of humor.


I mean, who wants the happiest you can be is when you were living in God’s will.





But I’m going to give you free will.




So you got to give it back to you.


It’s like, wait a second.


How do I get it?





It’s a trick.




It’s like that doesn’t logically make a lot of sense.




But that’s when I met my most comfortable is when I feel like I am aligned.


And for me, that is where, you know, I am in concert with what my gut tells me on stuff.



When I go against it, I have more turmoil.


I feel more disjointed, disconnected.


I am not as nice to be around.


Things are coming out sideways.


And it’s always coming out at those that are closest to us.




Because who you’re really pissed off at or who I am really pissed off at is me.




You know, but who I’m taking it out on is, you know, where’s my next victim?


Who’s the next person that’s walking in here?


You know, that it’s going to come out that way.





So, you know, I know an area that I constantly have to wrestle with is perfectionism.


You know, and it’s hard for me from a professional standpoint because I want things done a certain way.


I want to make sure that we represent people in a certain way.


But one of the things that I’ve had to learn and I continue to learn over and over again is just because it’s not my way.




It doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.





It just means that it’s different.




You know, now sometimes it’s not right.




I’m not going to go along with that.





But a lot of the time, different is just different.


Yeah, you saw this.


And I think it’s about stopping and listening for a minute, looking.


And then from that point, seeing if it does a line or doesn’t align with what you’re doing or what your purpose is or what you’re serving or what you want to represent.





That’s who you are, who your business is for sure.


Well, and that’s, you know, that’s one of the things.


So I started Scroggins Law Group six, a little over six years ago on February 1st, which was also my parents anniversary before my dad died and it’s my anniversary.




Now, so there’s a lot of meaning to that date for me, but it was to create a law firm or family law boutique that is different in that.





I don’t want to say yes to everybody.




You know, I don’t want to represent everybody.


We’re not for everybody.

And when you do that, you have, just like people want to pick us to serve them in business.





I’ve realized I want to pick who I work with and who my clients are as well.


And when I’ve started doing that, it’s kind of so much more peaceful.


I’m not frantic.


I’m not feeling anxious, anxiety.


It’s – I choose who I want to work with.


And if it aligns with me, and it’s it’s so crazy that I can turn around because we all we feel like a lot of times in business that we have to serve everyone that calls us or everyone that wants our services or everyone that says they need us.





But if you just stop for a minute, listen to them, listen to who they are as a person, what they’re doing in their business, how they do handle their business, how they handle other people.


It tells you how they’re going to handle you, how they’re going to handle their transactions with you.


Do they pay you?


Do they talk to you crazy?


All types of things like that.



And with what you’re saying, I think it also comes with all of this, you know, setting boundaries, not just personally, but in business to choose those that we want to surround ourselves with and work with.


And, you know, that makes a big difference anyways.




You know, who you’re working with.


Well, and I think.


Who you are as a person.





I mean, because one of, you know, I will tell people watch their feet.






Everybody’s got this or not everybody, but a lot of people have this.





The gift of gab, right?




They can talk a good game.




But do the feet match up with the game that they are talking and what my experience has been is that for most people, that’s a no.











So, you know, I picked the people who I choose to have as mentors in different areas of my life.




And they allowed me to choose them with it wasn’t where I set up the parameters of exactly what this relationship was going to be or how we were going to do things because I’m coming to them for a reason.







So, it’s basically, if you want what I’ve got, are you willing to do what I did?




You know, so it’s kind of the same thing for me professionally in a lawsuit where I can say, I can help you get from point A to point B. Yeah.


If you are willing to do X, Y and Z, are you willing to do that?





Well, when you see somebody that deviates from that, that’s when you get your real answer.


It’s easy to say yes.




You know, but when they’re not and they continue to do it over and over, you know, that’s where you’re left with a difficult choice.


For sure. 100%.



And especially in, you know, in personal relationships.


Oh, yeah.


You know, so if, you know, if you’ve got someone that is in your life that is a soul sucker, you know, I think we’ve all had them or probably been one.


Yeah, exactly.


And some of that is, you know, I’m not talking about somebody just in a dip going through a difficult time.





That’s, you know, I think that’s one of the areas that we really get the opportunity to be a good friend.


Oh, for sure.


Or a good partner or whatever.


But it’s when, you know, that person who you only hear from them when they need something.




Mm hmm.



And it’s always when, you know, everything is a disaster.






You know, oh, now I’m really willing.


But then you take the time to help, but then they still don’t.


And then they disappear.



That’s called.


You know what those are called?


What’s that?


Ask holes.


I’m gonna, I’m just telling you I’m stealing that.


They are called.



Ask holes.


Ask holes.


Call you.


Ask all the questions.


Yeah, yeah, I’m going to do it.


I got it.



I got it.


And you’ve told them 15 times and they turn right around and do the same shit.


They’ve always done to get themselves in a situation.


That’s, you know, and I stay away from those because like you said, they will drain you.


So like, I don’t have time to repeat myself 20 times.





So if it didn’t work for you the first time or if you didn’t take my advice, I’m saying it’s right.


Or it’s the perfect thing for you.


But then stop asking me the same question.


And again, it’s me going, I’ve already told them that listen, I’m not picking up the sun.


You know.


So that’s, I think that’s something else that’s really important is understanding that that’s a boundary that you are setting for yourself.





For self preservation.


And that’s okay.





Because there’s something unhealthy in society that gives this idea that it’s almost like you shouldn’t have any boundaries.



People are now boundaries have become a buzzword.




In the last few years and setting healthy boundaries.


And, but what does that actually mean?


And when people understand it’s, I can only do so much.


I’m here up to a point.





But that’s all I can do.


That’s all I have to give.


And there’s a societal piece.


I think that tells us, no, no, no, you’ve got to give more.


You’ve got to do.



And it’s like they’re calling me because they need, they need you.


I mean, but there are days, man.


You just need yourself.


There are days when I have nothing else to give someone.


And when ask hole rings my phone, I’m not answering, you know, because you’ve all right.


I mean, you’ve sucked 15 other times that we’ve had that.



So I think, like what you said, boundaries are an individual thing and they have to be.


We can’t think our boundaries have to match everyone else’s and they can come across sometimes as like what you said as, or your cold or you don’t show any motions.


You don’t like I’ve learned right now.


I have to through all of these other past experiences and lessons.


I have to put myself first.


And if I don’t do that, I’m no good to anyone else.





So that is really I stand by that now.


And more than I’ve never done that in my life.


Let’s talk about that a little bit because I think that something like I was talking about just a minute ago that societally we talk about those boundaries and taking care of yourself.


But then you get that same message that, well, don’t pay attention to what I just said over here.


I’m not taking care of yourself.



You need to be there to help everybody else.


And you do need to be there.


I think you do need to be there to help people and to serve your fellow mayor.


But how do you figure out where that line of demarcation is because that’s a struggle for me anyway.


You know, that’s hard.


And you know, and I feel like a complete jackass when I say no.



So no, right.




You know, so how do you go about figuring that out?


It’s hard.


And I think every situation is going to be different because sometimes it’s someone in business.


Sometimes it’s a loved one.



Someone I mean, sometimes it’s a long time friend.


And I’ll just keep going back to once we have really sat down and aligned ourselves first.


That’s when we can.


It’s not going to say we’re not going to have moments where we feel like a butthole, but we can really follow through with what our boundaries are and what our wants are first.


And that often comes across selfish and uncaring and all these other words that people want to use.


But when you go back to anyone, if they’re not okay with themselves, they’re literally destroying themselves trying to fit into this mold of what everybody else needs or wants at that time.



So you’ve got to learn how to say no for the benefit of yourself.


And it’s you have to.


There’s a re at the end of the day, there’s a reason you’re not able to set boundaries.


And that’s what you have to look at.


There’s a reason that you can’t say no to people.


Those are there’s something underlying there that is causing you to not have boundaries or to not take up for yourself or not to stand up for yourself or not to say, Hey, I need me time right now.



There’s something that is underlying right there.


And I think we all are responsible for going back and looking at that and figuring out what that is so that we can be our best selves and be confident enough to tell other people.


Listen, I just I’m sorry.


I don’t have any more of me to give right now.


There’s nothing wrong with.


I mean, that’s normal.



How many times have you ran yourself to death for everyone else?


And everyone else told the great, but you feel like shit.


I mean, that happens constantly.


You do it in your relationships.


You do it in business.


And if you were to pick up the phone and call those people, they wouldn’t answer or wouldn’t be there to do crap for you.



And it’s not a thing where it’s a tit for tat, but we get so caught up in that underlying thing that’s causing us to do that.




That we really need to.


I advise anyone.


You know, you have to stop and become aware of yourself, which is really, really hard and lonely and painful.


It can be painful.





But you have to do that in order to be the best you feel the best and fulfill your purpose.


Otherwise, you’re just you’re just going along through the motion.


You’re surviving.


You’re not living for sure.


I completely agree with that.



And it’s it’s hard now with, you know, one of the areas that really hits me a lot and thank God I’m the age I am because I am not prey to it like, like, I’m not.


Like others are, but the duality of social media.






You’ve got now.


There are more and more studies that have gone on that show that, you know, Gen Z specifically and.



Oh, God.


What was the millennials to have an issue with depression related to that and an inability to truly establish relationships because everything is right here.


And then the problem is, you know, you’ve got an aspect of social media, which is, look at me.


Look at me.


Look at me.





And all that is is a snapshot in time.




You know, of an event.




You know, and 100%.


And a lot of it is created for a specific purpose where people, you know, have the ability once you have enough following that you can monetize it.





So boy, I better look good and I better do this.


Oh, look at me on the swing in Valley.


You know, you don’t know Jack should about what their life is and how they feel and what makes them tick.


I mean, do they have a hollow existence?


Or are they really pleased with who they are as a person?



Are they spending six hours a day taking pictures of themselves all day every day?




You know, and then you’ve got everybody else that’s looking at those that is, you know, oh, I better heart that.


I better like this.


I better do do that.


And then these people that are sucked at, well, why isn’t my life like that?



My life isn’t as good.


And it’s like, you know, anything about what their life is.




So you’re comparing your insides to other people’s outsides.


You’re right.


And, you know, I don’t know how we get past the duality of it because right now, I mean, you know, it’s just, you know, cranky old man, curmudgeon.





Kind of shit.


Get off my lawn.


You know, kind of stuff.


If I say something about that, but it scares me to death with the comparison like that.


And it’s like, you don’t know what makes that person tick.



You don’t know if they are happy or not.


You know, I’ve been really poor and I’ve been pretty well off.


I like pretty well off better.


For sure.




But it doesn’t solve your problems.



You know, if you are just an asshole, you know, you can just be exactly.


That’s exactly right.


I mean, you know, I loved one of the, one of the sayings that Robin Williams had, which was that cocaine is God’s way of telling you you’re making too much money.




You know, and, you know, I have represented plenty of trust babies.





I can tell you that their problems are not any different than anybody else.


And the problem is, is that they’ve got the resources to be able to fund whatever kind of debauchery they want to get into trying to fix themselves at the moment.


If I’ve got to feel good now, right?


You know, and that’s great.


You feel good now.





What do you feel like in half an hour?




What you’re coming down from that.


You feel like when you lay your head on at night.


That’s right.


Can you look in the mirror?



Can you look in the mirror? 100%.






You know, I think identity is a big struggle at some point in anyone’s life.


As a child that may be, you know, how do I fit in at school?





Both of the same parents that look the same.


Do I have a mom and a dad?


Do my parents do what they do?


My hair is frizzy, crazy.


What, you know, there’s always, even as adults, you know, people are always trying to find out where do I fit in.





And that comes with, I think, social media.


Like you said, it stems around a lot of putting this stigma out there.


It’s like, oh, look at me.


Do you want to be like me?


Do you want to be like this?


But when you’re not loving yourself, when you haven’t aligned with yourself, when you’re, when you’re truly not living your purpose, those that identity ego is what I call it.



Oh, it’s always going to get in the way.


It’s always going to have you second guessing yourself.


It’s always going to have you allowing people to run over you because you think that that’s going to get you where you need to get.


I’ll say, and I’ll say it a thousand times over, being confident in who you are, knowing your purpose, and doing what is best to be you.


It can be lonely, and that’s what most people fear.



It’s being alone and not identifying with other people.



But in these last, probably three to four years where I’ve been alone, lost everything, felt like I did not identify with anyone.


I felt that way, growing up, same in business.


I don’t mesh well with everyone.


I don’t look your typical person in construction.




But when I started loving myself and being confident in who I was, which takes work, that’s when I don’t care, but I don’t care.


And that takes all of us going through things and being willing to continue to grow through them as you go and stop and going, okay, what is this trying to teach me?


What am I going to take from this?


How am I going to become better?


What am I going to learn not to do again in this situation?


So I’m not making repeat mistakes and going like that, but it really, anything, identity, self love, setting in rollboxes, all of that comes from that pressure of society, social media, making us think or us allowing it to make us think we have to be this way, and that’s the only way to be.


That’s a hard deal to get your hands around, because talking about the 20-something that’s swinging on a beautiful swing over the ocean in Valley.



Hell, I’ve never been to Valley yet.


I am dying to go to Valley.


I hope they have a swing that will hold me.


But a lot of people, it’s like, I want that.


Are you willing to walk the journey that it takes to get that?


Because it’s almost not almost.



I’m going to take that out.


It is a sense of entitlement.


And a lot of people think, “I need to quit doing that.”


I need to just say, what I thought for a long time was that I had these expectations.


I would set goals and then I’d achieve them, and then it’d be like, okay, this isn’t what I thought it was.


If I do this, then I’ve made it.



And then I achieved that, and it’s like, well, that wasn’t an idea.


So I better do this.


So all of those things are hollow unless you can really be in the moment, I think, to enjoy it.


So it seems to me that everything is, the one constant we have is change.


You’re correct.


And that you can fight it all you want, but it’s going to happen regardless.



So you better learn to get comfortable with it.


But for me to truly get comfortable with who I am, it’s figuring out what’s really important to me.


Is it working four days a week?


Is it that I want to retire at the age of 58?


It’s not.


I couldn’t imagine what I’d be doing.



It’s like figuring out what really makes me tick and what’s important to me.


But you have to know your, in order to answer those questions, what makes me tick, what you have to know yourself.


And truly stand by who you know and who you’ve become and who you want to be.


And that’s what you said.

In order to make those things tick, you have to start with that, which is putting in a word, knowing yourself, standing by protecting it and then staying aligned with that.





Well, and I think there’s also a big piece of, you know, that changes too.


As we get older, everything, your perspective changes.


It’s like the old saying of, you know, youth is wasted on the young.




You know, because you don’t have the, you don’t have the life experience there.


It’s like, so after I got divorced, I didn’t start dating a bunch of, you know, really young girls.



Because my experience with dating someone that was a whole lot younger than I, they didn’t have the life experience.


And so it’s like, what are we going to talk about?




You know, I remember a number of years ago, we had a, had a young associate and, and I was telling her, I was so excited.


I was going out to Vegas and we were going to see Billie Idol and concert and House of Blues out there.


And she just looked at me, dear in the headlights, like, I’m like, you have no idea who I’m talking about.







And she goes, no.


I know we’re Vegas.







Can you not know Billie Idol?


You know, but I mean, that’s the whole thing is everything changes as we get older.


So understanding that my perspective on things is going to change too.




And that I have to be willing to walk the journey to obtain whatever it is I’m seeking to obtain, you know, whether that is, you know, greater self awareness, whether it’s to be able to do ex philanthropically, whether it’s able to do this for family, whatever it is.





And your journey is not going to, your journey will never match anyone else’s.


And if you’re trying to align your journey to be a certain way of what you see someone else doing or whatever, it will never, there’s no way for you to stay on that path.




You know, I mean, it’s just really, it’s really hard to maintain that.




You know, because it’s not really who you are.



It’s not the road you want to be taking.


Well, and things are things are not always as they appear.




You know, there there’s been something that I’ve actually liked seeing on social media a little lately.


There was one showing of a shot towards the pyramids.


And then just you turn away from that.



And most people don’t realize how close the pyramids are to actually downtown Cairo.




And that, oh, there’s a McDonald’s and a pizza hut.


And, you know, and that kind of crap.


But that’s not the vision that you see, or that’s portrayed.


You know, so understanding it’s all about figuring out who I am, what works for me.



And just because that’s what works for me doesn’t mean that that’s what works for anybody else.


And being okay with that.


That’s right.




That’s right.


Well, Courtney, thank you so much for today.



Yeah, this has been a great evening.


Thank you.


You’re sharing your journey.


I mean, it’s beautiful.


I really appreciate that.


Thank you.



And ditto here.


I mean, we’ll become the mutual admiration society here.






Everybody go see Courtney because different and willing to speak to all these stories.


Isn’t that something new?



So, so thank you again.




And thank you all for joining us on another episode of the Reclamation Transformation.


And remember, change starts with you.


So leave your mark.

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